Curse

Lirael · Aug 09, 2006, 06:43 PM // 18:43

With the focus being put on the elite missions last weekend, I read up some on The Deep. I noticed people were recommending a Trapper for the Cookie Cutter PuGs but when my guildies and I got there, our pick-ups were repeatedly advising "Drop the Ranger". Of course my guildies would not do that.
However, we were a very inexperienced group for The Deep and after a couple of attempts most people wanted to do something easier which disappointed me because it didn't give me the chance to gain any experience on what worked and what didn't. So I thought I would make my first post in the forum (although I have read quite a bit) an inquiry.
Has anyone done The Deep? What skills did you like to have there? Is a Trapper build a good build to run? Is there anything effective a Ranger can do against Oni? What other professions were you able to work effectively with? What is the stupidest thing you have seen done? The Smartest? How did your group run the first four rooms, all at once or staggered?
Thanks in advance for any wisdom shared....

Bez L · Aug 09, 2006, 06:55 PM // 18:55

ok, i'll try to be succinct and informative at once

i've been on a few success ful runs with a team like this:

1. W/A, running kd ("shove" for example") and recall
2. W/A, with shove and recall
3. W/x, plain tank
4. E/me, Glyph of Renewal nuker, keeping meteor up constantly, with an enchantment stripper
5. E/me, Glyph of Renewal nuker, keeping meteor up constantly, with an enchantment stripper
6. E/x, GoR nuker with rebirth..me :P
7. SS necro
8. Blood is Power (BiP) necro, alson running blood ritual, to fuel monks and nukers
9-12. Monks, all with heal party to be spammed at the final Kanaxai boss and during the first rooms. General healing rather than prot, sig of devotion helps too.

At Start - rooms are from right to left, 1, 2, 3, 4.

Room 1 - Tank, Nuker, Monk
Room 2 - BiP, 2 monks spammin heal party
Room 3 - Tank, Nuker, Monk
Room 4 - Tank, Nuker, Monk ...i can't remember exactly where the SS goes

Room 2 does not fight, The other rooms fight their way out by aggroing and lower beasties, then the relevant Kanaxai aspects. I've cleared the main room with a group of three (nuker, tank, monk), but some people prefer to run from room 1 to 4 or 3, and team up with the other groups. The three fighting groups proceed to break out the group on room 2, and off you go!

Guide to The Deep part 1

feel free to continue, anyone who see's fit! I have been once with a ranger trapper who was used against oni's mainly, but this tends not to be the case. I haev a feeling that a trapper group may be able to take on the deep tho

Evilsod · Aug 10, 2006, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Our alliance team used 2 trappers instead of a 4th monk and a 3rd ele. We ran a rit too but i can't remember what it replaced... Ele nukers are.... overated. When it comes to the 'fear' aspect the moment everything charges just stop on the corner and lay down the traps, easy enough.
We reached Kanaxai fine... but died when the Nightmares for some reason returned back to Kanaxai and trapped us.

Either way, Deep sucks... Urgoz is alot better and even then its a bit repetitive.

Sir Mad · Aug 10, 2006, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Either way, Deep sucks... Urgoz is alot better and even then its a bit repetitive.

Hmm yeah I can't say I like it too. However, on the early stage of factions, my alliances owned Cavalon - here is the build I used then (I know it's NOT the cookie cutter build, but for having tried more conventional trapper builds there, I can say that in my mind it is the most efficient):

16 WS
13 expertise
-> remaining points in healing prayers or protection prayers, depending on your rez.

Skills:

1- Serpents Quickness
2- Flame Trap
3- barded Trap
4- Dust Trap
5- Throw Dirt
6- Troll Unguent
7- Martyr
8- Rebirth/Rez Chant/whatever

Note: this is for experienced melee trappers only. If you're not that used to it, I suggest you to replace SQ by Oath Shot, and Martyr by WD.

SQ is needed to keep traps spamable, as I don't have either Oath Shot or EW/QZ. The downside is that stances do not stack so you can't use a defensive stance at the same time. Throw Dirt and Dust Trap will help, but it's going to be harsh if you're not used to that. However, experienced melee trappers can drop 3/4 traps without being interupted (let the tanks do their job, and don't be foolish enough to attack the mobs around).

This build is weak in the first room, when the team is splitted in sub-teams of 3 players. I don't know why but when the warrior is attacking the Irkanjis (spelling?), their spirits sem to focus on you. But past this rom, it's deadly.

And as you've already been here, you know how many conditions you will have on you. Your warriors will be like "I have blind on me!" all the time, and the whole time will be burning, bleeding, etc. Martyr is then a great elite, and I'd rather have it on my trapper than on a monk of my team (let them do a better job with the elite they choose). I don't bring a condition remover, mainly because a lock of room in the skillbar actually, but also because a +10 troll unguent can counter the conditions you will have on you.

I hope it helps...

Lirael · Aug 10, 2006, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Thank you Sir Mad, it has helped a lot!!!

First because I was insecure about my trapping build. Since I was down there with other DEEP newbs, I couldn't evaluate the effectiveness of my build.

Secondly, I haven't used Serpent's Quickness, but I do use Oath Shot all the time in my trapping build. It means I have to swap out the Staff I take for extra energy and my bow, but such is life...I will take Serpent's into the UW for a while and see if I can't get used to it.

(I know this is a newb question, please don't laugh) My second is an ele, what skill can I get instead of Rez Sig?

Evilsod · Aug 10, 2006, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Experienced Melee trappers? You make it sound like theres skill involved in a monster deciding to not wand you for a while. When it comes to the elite missions, Trappers Focus + Serpents Quickness ftw, Spike Trap is useless imo.

I really don't think having a res on the trapper matters tbh. If your standing near foes to trap them your usually 1 of the first to die.

Sir Mad · Aug 10, 2006, 03:34 PM // 15:34

I've seen a R/E trapper build for trolls farming using a couple of AoE spells affecting nearby foes to speed it up, and that was very effective. But that was against trolls, I wouldn't try that in the Deep (and to be honnest I don't remember the whole build). I'd say switch to monk as a secondary. The point of the build above was to have an offensive trapper build, almost as good (ie: as spammable) as an Oath Shot + WD trapper build combined with a very effective support skill (at least in this place): Martyr. If you're not a R/Mo and don't wanna change, then drop serpents quickness and use a traditional Oath Shot trapping build: SQ is just here to make traps spammable - Oath Shot is better from this point of view, as basically it allows you to drop traps until you run out of energy.

A standard ath Shot build looks like:

Oath Shot
Flame Trap
Barded Trap
Dust Trap
Whirling Defense
Troll Unguent
Throw Dirt
Rez

I usually don't bring vipers nest, finding more effective to focus on WS and expertise, but that's just a matter of taste. You can go with 15 WS 13 exp and spend the 26 remaining points in BM if you wanna bring it.

EDIT -

Quote:

Experienced Melee trappers? You make it sound like theres skill involved in a monster deciding to not wand you for a while. When it comes to the elite missions, Trappers Focus + Serpents Quickness ftw, Spike Trap is useless imo.

I really don't think having a res on the trapper matters tbh. If your standing near foes to trap them your usually 1 of the first to die.

Yeah some players are good enough to do that, others ain't. Have you even tried it? 75% of my traps are not interupted. How to do that? Let the tank do his job, and aggro the first wave. Go behind, drop Dust Trap (you may wana use Throw Dirt before), and you won't be hurt.

And no, you're definitely not the first one to die. You just gotta know your job.

Lirael · Aug 10, 2006, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Nah I don't want to put attribute into Beast Mastery, I am not expierenced enough to be effective when I am spread so thin.

I agree with Mad on the trapping thing, if I have warriors in the group, I let them tank while I find a likely spot and lay traps behind the line. Sometimes I lay traps in the wrong place but live and learn. Usually with one Ranger the traps just soften 'em up, you hit whirling defense right before they get there and hold out for a teammate to finish them off (or kite)...Only when the enemy is thoroughly occupied by my mates and they have a lot of health do I sneak in and lay traps nearby them, and then I get the heck out of there!!!

Here is the build I am thinking about...

Oath Shot
Flame Trap
Barded Trap
Dust Trap
Whirling Defense
Troll Unguent
Escape
Rez

What do you think about Healing Spring instead of Rez in the Deep?

Sir Mad · Aug 10, 2006, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Ecape and Oath Shot are both an elite - I guess you meant Lightning Reflexes instead?

Well I always bring a rez so... But indeed Healing Spring is another usefull skill.

Huntmaster · Aug 13, 2006, 03:42 AM // 03:42

During my time playing GW, me and some people did the deep 4 times. We beat kanaxai twice. The first two times were experimental really..

I was trapper everytime, and we stole a little something from IWAY. I was a martyr trapper. Not only does this take stress off your monks, it also gives you something to do when traps aren't really needed.

I believe we had only 1 tank, as well, when we went through the last 2 times. (Tip: You don't need more then ONE warrior!)

Horseman Of War · Aug 13, 2006, 02:10 PM // 14:10

you guys are all nuts. not really, but I have recently fallen in like with the Deep... Gives me a purpose for my original character again...

Dwarven Battle Stance owns Kanaxai Hard... owns all the aspects hard too. dunno what the other KD tanks are using... but I dont TOUCH tactics or shove crap... I beat the living snot out of things.

I whopped on the end boss with a team of 5

Dwarven Stance, Counter BLow, hammer bash- thats really all it took

plus i had an echo nuker with meteor, a monk a rit and some random wierd mesmer... so Id say Kanaxai got to swing about 3 times, cast 1/2 of an enchantment, and basically just sat there motionless and crying like a little Kurzick girlie-man. (sorry had to take the cheap shot-hehe)

Carth` · Aug 14, 2006, 01:38 AM // 01:38

I did it with a trapper in the team. At the start he came into room 2 (the one that doesn't attack) with the heal party monk and the BiP. He didn't have anything to do here. This is the reason most people don't consider the trapper useful, because he isn't much use at the start. And most PUGs don't get past the start right?

But then, later on in the mission, he really shined. The team I was with was experienced, they had cleared The Deep many times before, and was mostly a guild team, but with two randoms, the trapper, and me, a monk. They knew exactly what enemies would spawn and where, and told the trapper when and where to trap. Those Oni never died so fast.

The trapper did a great job, and he made it a lot easier, because every group of enemies that attacked us got a load of conditions piled on them, and were knocked down and reduced to less than 25% health. The nuker in the group remarked how he had nothing to do because the trapper was killing everything. But like I said, the trapper didn't have anything to do at the start.

A ranger isn't really essential for the mission though, not all teams bring one.